Comments on: XDCAM EX1 Hands-On - First Impressions Podcast Discussion

By: Cody Stanton

Cody Stanton — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:09:28 +0000

Matt,
Sony has just come out with a new camcorder. The PMW EX3. I believe that this camera addressed most of the issues of the past.A prototype was reviewed by Philip B
Awaiting your response as to what you think of this. It looks like a cross between the Canon XLH1 and the EX1
Cody

By: Kendal Miller

Kendal Miller — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:10:03 +0000

QUOTE “a 4:2:0 1920×1080 vbr inter-frame codec cannot be compared to a 4:2:2 1440×1080 cbr intra-frame codec, especially when they’re compared between two different cameras. the xdcam codec is very many times more efficient than dvcpro-hd. comparing absolute bit rates is not meaningful.”

Actually they can, have been, and will continue to be compared. While you cannot compare bitrate to bitrate which is not what anyone is suggesting, you can easily compare the propensity of a codec at the bitrate to break, artifact, or band. You can also compare the difference in color space between the two codecs, and the accuracy of that color space. Here is on example of some methodology used by CineForm to do codec testings and comparisons. No one is saying that JUST because DVCPRO-HD has higher bitrates its a better codec. There are too many variables involved to determine a codec winner based soley on datarates. Having said that a higher bandwidth or data pipe, opens the door to be able to handle much more data. As far as intra vs inter frame compression goes those comparisons have been done before as well. Personally I would prefer an intra frame compression scheme at all times in an ideal world because I feel the advantages outweigh the cons. Once again thats all things being equal in a perfect world.

Dave,
If you can wait a few weeks early reports from the field, (Hopefully FreshDV as well.) should be able to flush out the real world specs of these cameras alot more.

By: Matthew Jeppsen

Matthew Jeppsen — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:52:23 +0000

I agree that the lines blur in these latest three cameras from Sony. But if you are fine with the HDV codec and don’t need overcrank, the Z7U makes a lot of sense. Good low-light numbers, a solid-state option while still providing long-run times of tape, and handhold-ability (the EX1 falls down in this area).

Call me sometime if you want to discuss this. Or we’ll see you in Vegas!

-Matt Jeppsen

By: Dave Williams

Dave Williams — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:11:58 +0000

You guys know what I do and probably understand my dilemma. I’m really having a tough time deciding which camera to drop my duckets on - the EX1 or the Z7U. Help!

By: anonymous

anonymous — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 01:42:41 +0000

a 4:2:0 1920×1080 vbr inter-frame codec cannot be compared to a 4:2:2 1440×1080 cbr intra-frame codec, especially when they’re compared between two different cameras. the xdcam codec is very many times more efficient than dvcpro-hd. comparing absolute bit rates is not meaningful.

By: Kendal Miller

Kendal Miller — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:10:50 +0000

That would be me guys LOL!! Sorry for the distractions, my ADD kicks in LOL, will definitely work on toning it down thanx for the feedback much appreciated.

By: Nick Jensen

Nick Jensen — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:34:57 +0000

The remote guy kept stepping on the comment by the high resolution audio talker. VERY ANNOYING!! I often wanted to hear a comment but it never got completed because the remote guy kept interrupting. It was like he HAD to get his point in immediately and couldn’t ever wait for the appropriate moment.

By: Matthew Jeppsen

Matthew Jeppsen — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:36:26 +0000

Sulo, we had some audio issues while recording over the interwebtubes, but decided to post the discussion anyway. Apologies if you found it hard to listen, though I do think the content is worth the trouble (a point you also seem to agree with).

Thanks for listening,

-Matt Jeppsen

By: sulo

sulo — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:29:19 +0000

interesting podcast good review matt is more pro much more focused and making clear statements the other guy i sometimes can hardly understand ( might be me) why is he giggleing and never really coming up to the point .
well still very helpfull . btw matt u talk out of my soul concerning the ex
thanks to all of you …

By: Christopher Barry

Christopher Barry — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:59:56 +0000

Kendal, ahh yes, making DVCProHD 1080pA24 80Mbps. Totally different codecs, and at 80Mbps, there is no correlation or comparison.

Matt/Kendal, the ‘NYC Times Square EX-1 footage’ posted on DVXuser is another example of well shot and good post applied to EX1 sourced footage.

Thanks again for this EX1 coverage. NAB only a few months away, perhaps Panasonic will announce…

By: Matthew Jeppsen

Matthew Jeppsen — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:07:30 +0000

Anthony, I agree that this is a very confusing camera…it excels in many areas, and is surprisingly weak in others. However, there is no doubt that in talented hands it can deliver some unbelievable footage. Phil Bloom is a good example. Just don’t expect to run-n-gun handheld without some kind of brace or camera support (something as simple as a decent monopod might be the answer).

-Matt Jeppsen

By: Kendal Miller

Kendal Miller — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 05:52:13 +0000

Christopher 60i is 60 fields but 30 frames 29.97 so the difference between 24P and 24PN are slight. I saw the math on the 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2 very good points!! I feel that definitely the full raster chips help provide an interesting affect on the compression vs the HVX, its crazy in this world with so many flavors of codecs everything begins to muddle black doesn’t equal black any more because of variable “Y” etc….so on and so forth. It gets pretty tricky to discern and sort through things, so Ajit I feel your pain. LOL.

By: Ajit

Ajit — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:40:38 +0000

Excellent podcast.

However, I am very much confused on whether I should get this camera. I am not really handheld shaky camera guy so it might be fine.

Dang.

By: Christopher Barry

Christopher Barry — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:01:01 +0000

Hi Matt and Kendal,

Regarding the codecs, XDCAM HQ 1080p24 35Mbps VBR (the EX1) vs DVCProHD 1080p24 100Mbps codec (say, an HVX), is it correct to say that the DVCProHD is recording 1080p24 over 60 frames, it is pA mode, not pN mode, so the 100Mbps is shared across the 60 frames, making 24 frames effectively 40% of the 100Mbps over 60, thus is the DVCProHD 1080pA24 codec effectively a 40Mbps encoded codec?

Another interesting way of looking at the EX1’s 4:2:0 against the HVX’s 4:2:2: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=803972&postcount=6

Of course, there are pros and cons for each camera, or any camera you want to compare in a certain general class. Also, numbers are one thing, seeing is believing.

Thanks for sharing your discussion.